161 Comments

Suggestions, please!

Open Suggestion Thread

Please add suggestions for questions that have not yet been addressed, hopefully with links to articles that address those questions, in the comments to this post.

Note: Comments left here are to suggest further posts rather than begin a debate. If you wish to generate a discussion, then your question might be more appropriate on the Ask A Question thread.

What sort of suggestions could you make?

Firstly, links that cover basic material for the benefit of the genuinely curious.

Secondly, links that debunk common anti-feminist myths and address common arguments from trolls.

The model for all efforts of this kind to emulate is the marvellous Index to Creationist Claims associated with USENet newsgroup talk.origins. The wonderful zuzu, who has kindly seen fit to widely promote this project, nails it:

Got a troll asking you disingenuous or stupid questions and don’t know where to tell them to go (other than hell, of course)? Drop on by the open suggestion thread and make a suggestion for a post to which you can later refer trolls (or the genuinely clueless). With a sweet smile and a suggestion to come back once they’ve covered the first-year course material.

As a general rule I’d prefer people to nominate other people’s articles rather than their own in this thread, but it’s fine to link to your own writing in other threads.

If you have an article you’d like to suggest as a link to be added to an existing FAQ post, please add it in the comments to that post. That way the comments thread becomes a user-generated “More Reading” list even if I decide against adding the link to the body of the post.

Thanks in advance for contributing to this feminist resource.

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161 comments on “Suggestions, please!

  1. (Accidentally posted this in “Ask a Question”, I mixed up the two threads. Feel free to delete it from there, it’s definitely a suggestion, not something I am personally confused about.)

    A discussion over at Geek Feminism made me notice that we don’t have anything about affirmative action or any conscious decisions to try and correct institutional or personal biases against less privileged people. I guess the question would be something along the lines of “but doesn’t feminism hurt deserving men who will be rejected in the name of equal opportunity?” or something like that.

    It could possibly be added to the reverse sexism question, which is currently more about feminist ideas being reverse sexist rather than feminist initiatives (like women’s mentoring groups etc etc).

  2. Hi! I love the idea of a Feminism 101 blog, but I noticed some topics I felt were missing. In one post, you do link to someone discussing the variety of beliefs one can hold while claiming the title of feminist, but I don’t see (unless I’ve overlooked it?) an FAQ post discussing the specific beliefs and disagreements common to feminism, such as sex-positive feminism vs. radical feminism, academic feminism, the sex wars, or LGBTQI intersectionality and views on transwomen. Are these topics considered too advanced for 101 FAQ posts? I especially believe there ought to be more posts about transwomen in feminism; leaving them out would seem very cis-centric.

  3. I just clicked on your “trans” tag and saw your post decrying the exclusionary policies at MichFest. I’m very glad to see that. I felt this blog was being sort of quiet around the issue as far as I could tell, but I hadn’t yet seen that post. I would still suggest discussing the topic in a very visible place like your FAQ, but all the same, thanks for taking a stance.

  4. Something else that came up on Geek Feminism: I guess as an FAQ its “how does a feminist man ever get to have any sex with women?” or “how can I express sexual interest in a feminist way?” It’s particularly asked by men who are not especially successful in male hierarchies, and who feel sufficiently victimised by it already and aren’t very pleased to hear that they should apparently jeopardise their chances of sexual success any further by approaching women less often or “giving up” more easily.

    There’s a bunch of things that need to go in the answer, and I think a lot of links about. A lot of the feminist blogging around Nice Guys has touched on “feminism does not owe you sexual fulfilment” which is a central point. But it would be also good for some specifics on how female-male sexual approaches get made among feminists.

    This guest post on Shapely Prose addresses it, in the context of men approaching women who are strangers to them: http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

    Other more theoretical posts from the same discussion are http://contexts.org/socimages/2009/10/04/guest-post-nerd-assertiveness-and-blindness-to-privilege/ and http://kateharding.net/2009/10/05/would-it-kill-you-to-be-civil/

    • One problem I have with the Schroedinger’s Rapist idea (The shapely prose post) is that the analogy isn’t perfect. In Schroedinger’s Cat looking in the box collapses the wave-function and the cat then becomes either alive or dead. The same is not true of the rapist.

      Talking to a strange man on a bus/train (the situation the author applies the idea to) does not collapse his rape wave-function. Statistics show that a woman is far far less likely to be raped by a stranger than an acquaintance. Furthermore almost all stranger rapes involve plying the victim with alcohol. (For statistics see here: http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/03/25/predator-theory/)

      You are in fact quite safe from rape talking to a man on a train. Even if the man happens to be a rapist, talking to him by itself does not increase your chance of being raped. Fearing being raped in that situation is irrational.

      That’s not to say that the fear isn’t understandable. It is. It’s understandable because the media constantly floods us with news/stories about that situation being dangerous. It’s just that the truth is, statistically in terms of rape, it isn’t very dangerous at all. If you are setting your own risk threshold, I think that’s useful to know.

      I know we talk about Rape myths elsewhere on this site (https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/feminism-friday-popularity-of-long-debunked-rape-myths-talk-about-disheartening/). But I think it is worth pointing out here that the author of the shapely prose article seems to heavily buy into those myths, and she encourages men to assume women they might want to approach are hypervilgilant. I don’t see how that can possibly be helpful, all it does is warn off the guys who are considerate enough to think of the woman involved, and normalise rape culture further.

      For those that are actually interested, from the statistics I refer to above, it seems there is one thing that a woman could do to substantially reduce her chances of being raped. When an acquaintance who she has met two or three times asks, “How about a drink?” she could respond with “How about a coffee instead?” As it seems that a woman fully cognizant is most of the time too difficult a mark for a rapist.

      • Kandela, the comments thread for that post extends the metaphor to general hostility from men such as street harassment, so although you are pedantically correct, you are missing the greater point. It is not just the threat of rape which makes most women hypervigilant about being approached by strange men.

        When a woman is approached by a strange man, she doesn’t know whether he’s just a friendly chap who likes to chat (with or without possible dating intentions), or someone setting up a move in his personal point-scoring dominance game against women. Women meet men out there every day who pounce on the slightest excuse to intimidate women through their body language or through verbal aggression for no obvious reason other than that they obviously get some satisfaction from it.

        The really scary part is that we don’t know whether such intimidation will escalate to physical aggression, but we’ve all read news reports of women being bashed or run over because they were just trying to ignore some dominance-fetishist or because they responded with active repudiation. This shit happens.

      • P.S. I just realised an omission above – while stranger rape as in penetrative assault is rare, stranger sexual assault as non-penetrative incidents is not at all rare. That’s definitely something women are vigilant about with good reason, too.

  5. KellyK said:

    Can you add “slut-shaming” and/or “mother/whore dichotomy” to Clarifying Concepts?

    Ask and ye shall receive (eventually)! FAQ: What is “slut-shaming”? There’s a segment in there on the sexual double standard as it applies to slut-shaming, but I had to cut the parts on the “virgin/whore” dichotomy due to length. I’ve moved them to their own post, however, and will let you know when I’ve gotten that one written up and posted.

  6. It would help me, and therefore, I arrogantly assume, others, if someone took an anti-feminist bingo card and explained each square, or more realistically linked each square to an extant post that explains it. I was just looking at the ones from Hoyden About Town, and there were items I’m unclear on the problem with, and others I think I understand but wouldn’t want to be on the wrong track.

    • I thought I replied to this; perhaps one of the moderators could check if there’s a comment of mine stuck in the queue due to links?

      In case I didn’t reply, what would be useful in future is people linking specific bingos, as they vary depending on which site you visit and at which time. It would also be useful if people could explain in a bit more detail which items are a problem for them, to give people a starting point.

      • Hm. Ok, I just went back here and couldn’t actually find anything I wasn’t sure of, nor here. But I remember there was something!

        Maybe I’ve become better-informed since April.

  7. Mary: Yes! Coming from personal experience as a male who was given a “colloquial feminist” upbringing this has been a major concern for most of my teenage/adult life. Out of fear of ever being oppressive I have just never approached women. I wanted more than anything for girls to approach me back in my teenage years, but it never happened. Somehow I find myself in a committed relationship with a wonderful woman, but I don’t know how it happened.

    Given my present situation it’s a much less personal question to me, but still an important one. I think it is worthy enough of a question to be dealt independently of the “Nice Guy” phenomenon. Also, there seems to be the assumption that men would only be thinking with their loins when approaching a woman (see the second Shapely Prose link). The question can easily be framed more broadly.

    • enkimdu – coming back to this thread has reminded me that I never put up a post for people to share their own experiences of how men can express sexual interest in a feminist way. I will get around to that, I promise!

  8. Also

    A lot of people seem to not be aware of the distinction between gender and sex. This might make a good topic.

  9. Another one:

    What has been the response of feminists to women that act or speak out in opposition to feminist causes (anti-suffragettes, Philis Schafly, etc.)?

  10. Are you asking, enkimdu? Or just suggesting a post? I know a common response to modern anti-feminists like Schlafly is that if it weren’t for feminism, she wouldn’t be able to exercise her right to earn her own money trashing feminism. Anti-feminist women take advantage of the gains made by feminism. They’re hypocrites.

  11. I have a suggestion, but it’s not for a new FAQ, so maybe it’s supposed to go somewhere else and I just didn’t find the right place. Here it goes anyway.

    It would be cool if, in addition to Socialize, del.ici.ous, digg, reddit, Squidoo, and Technorati, you also had a link for Twitter. I heard all the kids are doing it.

    • Ah, you’ve obviously been looking at some of the older pages imported over from the old Blogger site – back before Twitter took off! The newer posts don’t have any social networking links on them at all…

  12. Someone on another blog directed me to this essay, which was an interesting read. I thought I would share it here, maybe to include among the links you have to other sites.

    Searching for Safety Online: Managing “Trolling” in a Feminist Forum

    It talks about the phenomenon of anti-feminists disrupting feminist forums, it’s history and what effect it has on these forums and approaches to dealing with them, using the case study of “Kent” as an example. No doubt many of you are familiar with this sort of behaviour, having been on the receiving end of it at one time or another. But also a lot of your readers of the disruptive variety find their way here too. Reading this might give them some insight into how they’re perceived and the effects they have (assuming they actually care).

    I don’t know…it just seems appropriate to include on a feminism 101 site and thought I’d bring it to your attention.

  13. [...] 11, 2010 by tigtog 63 Comments It’s a question a lot of men have – they see themselves as feminist allies, they don’t want to be [...]

  14. A man at a professional conference recently approached me to start a conversation on a professional topic we were both interested in.

    It was, in all ways, a good and appropriate conversation, and an example of the reason I go to conferences like that. But he later confessed to me that he’d been very hesitant to speak to me because he was afraid it would come across as cover for some kind of flirtation. It seemed ridiculous, because he was so far from anything inappropriate, but that fear came a hair’s breadth from actually diminishing the conference’s benefit to both of us.

    I’d love to formulate and publish a really clear rule-of-thumb that would give assurance to even the most shy and awkward guys about where “the line” is. I have a few ideas of my own that I’ll probably blog about, but I’d like to see your thoughts. The hard part is that men differ so widely in their judgements and self-judgements. Some will be critical or suspicious of themselves at virtually anything, and others find excuses for even the most egregious of their own behavior. It’s hard to know how to encourage the former but not the latter.

    I’m not sure if this is a feminist question, precisely, but it does have gender-specific impact. When women end up shut out of social-professional circles for reasons like this, it has real career impact.

    • I’m not sure if this is a feminist question, precisely, but it does have gender-specific impact. When women end up shut out of social-professional circles for reasons like this, it has real career impact.

      I totally agree but haven’t been able to put together more than swirling thoughts on the subject. It’s a great question though.

  15. I have a different and more informal suggestion (although I read “the personal is the political” and that presented to me the anecdote or personal experience, as more solid and useful, at least in the political and social area, than I used to believe):

    How about having your readers to tell or write everyting they think or judge to be a demonstrance of white, male, etc, privilege in their everyday life? In the end the blog might end up having a list so long that it could become a sort of example for the “dummy” (or those like me hat have problem with contemporary discrimination because it seems so invisible, although it is not).

    We could also, with whatever material the readers give, criticize, verify and explain why it is an act of discrimination and not a mere sensitive reaction. I suppose most of them will be obvious but maybe some others will be more subtle, like benevolent sexism or fashion, I do not know :P.
    :)

  16. Could you PLEASE, please, please create a post about misogyny? I always get people denying that misogyny exists and arguing that it has to be deliberate.

  17. I went back and read all the comments—gee, look, that Leamas guy, who makes sure he leaves scathing reviews for any woman who’s not Ann Coulter on Amazon—–and didn’t see this one: the civility wars, wherein men say the most hateful shit imaginable, but do it without swearing, and so give the impression that they’re good, logical, level-headed people. (Who don’t experience what they discuss.) They can go anywhere to whine about how rape is over-reported and lied about, but they sure want to clog up feminist boards with their affection for Eugene Kanin and various rape excuses. And then there’s the fact that supposed male feminists side with them! It’s basically just a big ole tone argument straight from Derailing for Dummies but it would be good to see someone tackle it.

  18. I’d love to see a post on sexist language: what is it, what are its effects, and what can we do about it. The simplest examples are words like “b*tch” and “p*ssy” that denote the feminine and are used as insults. Other examples would be male-as-default language, like “mankind” and “guys” (to refer to a mixed gender group). The reasons why female-gendered slurs are not equivalent to male-gendered slurs would be important to cover as well.

    • Hi, yes, I’d like to second this suggestion please. I’m particularly interested in an article that could explain clearly why calling women ‘ladies’ is considered sexist, or some references. Article on gendered language? Great site, thanks!

  19. I’d love to see a FAQ link about ‘why are you complaining, at least we don’t practice female circumcision here (but we do practice male circumcision, so western culture is biased against men, not women!).’ The sort of, ‘we’re not as bad as those other cultures, so shut up’ kind of statement.

    • On LKL’s note, I’d like to see addressed the notion that women’s oppression is all located in Africa and “the Middle East.” If you think (western) women are oppressed, go to Saudi Arabia or Darfur – that kind of thing.

      Also, I haven’t looked around so apologies if you’ve already addressed this, but a conversation about the link between homophobia and sexism, or how homophobia is actually a form of sexism, could be helpful and interesting. Ironically, there seem to be a lot of people who are eager to condemn homophobia but still think sexism is a joke, as if the two things have nothing to do with each other.

    • @LKL:

      In general and sort of in specific, what you are describing is a combination of a couple of gold-standard derailing tactics:

      https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/resources/mirror-derailing-for-dummies/#butbut
      (This specifically references situations where FGM is equated to male circumcision)

      https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/resources/mirror-derailing-for-dummies/#moreimportantly
      (This specifically references the attempt to dismiss / diminish the validity of whatever issue is being raised by suggesting some other issue, usually completely unrelated, is of greater urgency)

      Otherwise? I’d actually love to see the “male circumcision has no place in the female genital mutilation” discussion as well. The male reaction to the issue of FGM is a case study of individual males falling into lockstep against women. Individual men on one side of the world advocate and enforce cultures that require severe violence be visited upon each and every female. Meanwhile, men on the other side of the world silence, abrogate the issue through threat of violence, and invoke male privilege of by demanding women devote our attention and energy to addressing male issues.

      To my eye, this particular specific topic and its handling, reception, and reactions commonly associated with it as an issue probably represent as the single most obvious and clear-cut demonstrations of quintessential androcentric, male supremecist power over and against women in action:

      - demanding that the discussion center on only male issues and male-relative issues;
      - refusing to permit any non-male issue to exist without at the very least re-framing it as relative to (and secondary to) a male issue,
      - the conscious act of equating male circumcision with female genital mutilation, particularly as a tactic blatantly intended restore a male issue to the position of primacy by diminishing, trivializing, and invalidating the issue of FGM itself,
      - how individual males act spontaneously, in defense of male privilege, to protect and reject challenges to male power, and
      - how those individual reactions collectively converge and cooperatively establish / reinforce the patriarchal oppression of all women through this combination of violence, threat of violence, and silencing.

      Anyway, I’d love to see it.

      -Miss Andrist
      Lover of Men

  20. Good article in The Guardian debunking the science behind the ‘Mars Venus’-style gender determinism (but don’t bother reading the comments):

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/15/girls-boys-think-same-way

  21. Have you folks considered making a post addressing something many women say “But I’m a woman and I don’t feel oppressed”? Or do you feel that Well I Know Another Person From Your Group Who Disagrees is sufficient? If you do consider making such a post, I would be really happy to contribute if you would let me. I used to be one of those women who said such things, so it would be nice to share my story and point out what things I didn’t get which led me to say things like that.

    I have seen other blogs address it, but the ones I’ve seen all concluded that women who say these things were just really lucky and they really didn’t experience oppression. In my case, I did experience the oppression but didn’t identify it as such, and I don’t think I’m an anomaly.

  22. The big one I’m getting all over the place lately is the “only crazy “wounded” women think that men are bad, “Real” men treat women nice and so clearly you are a crazy man-hating psycho and I feel really sorry for you, but you’re making the world dangerous for my sons so shut up with your imaginary “sexism” and go away!” tactic.

    I don’t know if it’s Stockholm syndrome writ large, but these women really believe we all live in some sugar-coated world where the men are all sweet supportive perfect happy bunnies and that anyone who believes differently is dangerously delusional.

    It seems like Feminism 101 might not be enough for them, Reality 101 might be better. How can you be a woman and NOT NOTICE sexism?

  23. Here’s one I just got – and FTR I don’t think he is trolling, but I just don’t have the energy to explain this 101 question:

    “I’m curious. You say monogamy is a male institution designed to prevent women from getting their freak on with other guys? Isn’t it usually women that insist on marriage to begin with?”

    This is in response to my answer on OKCupid (dating site):

    Q: If you were in a long-term monogamous relationship, would you consider your partner “open mouth” kissing someone else cheating?

    A: No. My comment: Monogamy is a fucked-up concept whereby men cement their ownership of women. Therefore, I don’t believe in it.

  24. I have a question on feminist views towards hard rock and heavy metal music. Do you think listening to those genres are compatible with feminism? On one hand, women are traditionally expected to listen to softer forms of music – so to listen to genres that are traditionally considered for men can seem empowering for a feminist. On the other hand, though, there has been accusations of misogyny leveled towards those genres.

    Like, for example, Led Zeppelin has been accused of writing songs that can be con trued as anti-women – especially in their earlier days, where there is a lyric in Dazed and Confused that goes “the soul of a women was created below”. Others may argue, though, that Jimmy Page was just venting about his problems with females through song lyrics. Not all of their songs are like that, though.

    Do you think, if women really want to listen to hard rock and/or heavy metal, they should discern on a song-by-song or artist-by-artist basis – or do you think the genres are inherently anti-women? The other side of it, though, are the traditionalist (non-feminist) folks who insist that hard rock and heavy metal is for men.

    There is also the fact that some (I don’t want to generalize) radio stations that play that format tend to market their station primarily or exclusively towards men – which can include commercials or DJ banter that alienates the female listeners.

    The other issue I would like to see addressed is where feminism and fat acceptance intersect. While both obese men and women tend to get discriminated against, women who are a few extra extra pounds larger tends to experience more prejudice than men who are a few pounds larger. Also, the media seems to believe that women are always (or should be) dieting – while men don’t have that expectation.

    Anyway, this is a great site – and I like what I’ve read, so far.

  25. does talking about “male privilege” and “patriarchy” mean that you’re blaming me/all men?

  26. I was referred to this site from another site, and I must say I’m disappointed. I really expected to read things that would make me reconsider my view of feminism as the refuge of the bitter radical fringe. I honestly came expecting to be convinced that at least one of my ideas about feminism and feminists really WAS just a myth. What a disappointment. Under your FAQ’s, 3 or 4 threads about feminists being butch lesbians and the rest mainly about rapists and why *on principle* women should never be counseled to take precautions against them.

    Feminist stereotypes are actually tangential to most people, who are actually more likely to be put off by modern feminism’s track record on social issues like abortion, family values, and freedom of expression. Yet these are never even mentioned in the FAQs which are supposed to be a resource, as you said in your intro, for newbies. Perhaps you’re taking this tack because first people have to know “the truth” that feminism isn’t about man-hating before they can be receptive to its other claims. If so, it only underscores how out of touch you are with the average woman, let alone society. I spent a good hour or so poring over this site, and most of what I read reminded me that most people steer clear of self-identified feminists for the same reason they avoid religious fundamentalism: because they are perceived as unreasonable extremists insisting on seeing a world of grayscale in black and white.

  27. I’d like to see a subsection of the PHMT article that points to the spaces we feminists know have been created to address male issues. In particular, I recently found out that a close male friend of mine was raped, and would like to be able to turn to my usual trusted sources for information about how to help him, and how to address these issues as a human experience, rather than just a female one. I’d like to find a place where I could discuss which actions on my part could be helpful or harmful to him with someone who has already dealt with a similar experience.

  28. Can you please do a section about the argument that feminism hurts women, because women give birth AND have to work? I’ve been seeing this argument a lot lately.

  29. Here’s a point: Most of the FAQs I’ve seen on this website don’t address male feminists in any way. Why?

  30. My suggestion: a donation button.

  31. Hi, my philosophy blog has attempted to give an introduction to feminist issues in philosophy via a discussion of Carol Gilligan on female moral psychology and Charlotte Perkins Gilman’s utopian novel “Herland.”

    http://www.partiallyexaminedlife.com/2011/09/05/episode-42-feminists-on-human-nature-and-moral-psychology/.

    Thanks!

  32. Admin Announcement: because comments are now closed after a short commenting period, this Open Thread will be auto-closed. Please email suggestions in future using the contact page.

  33. I would appreciate an FAQ about the tone argument, or perhaps tone arguments generally.

    In particular, I would like help identifying the distinction between discussions about tone, the likes of those discussions about the most effective ways to get through to people that happen all the time on feminist blogs, and the same issues derailieg conversation where they are not wanted.

    I myself have a lot of trouble resisting the urge to talk about feminist language in conversations about sexist language, for instance. It always seems like a logical segue.

  34. Well, I don’t know how to bring this up…. or if I’ve just missed the article, but perhaps you could do something about the silencing effect that can often happen on Feminist internet efforts?

    I often end up sharing this link as an example, but it would be nice to have more than one high-quality link:

    http://tigerbeatdown.com/2011/10/11/on-blogging-threats-and-silence/

  35. I recently got into an argument with a family member on Facebook. My spouse had linked to Buzzfeed, “17 Reasons We Still Need Feminism,” which has images of people holding a white board with a reason that person believes feminism is important. A cousin commented, “#12 needs feminism to get that rag off her head,” referring to the woman’s hijab. I’ve been trying to convey that being Muslim or wearing hijab does not necessarily make someone oppressed. I was looking for a resource to share, but have had trouble finding something written in a “101″ style. This cousin is a woman working in a male-dominated field and thus considers herself empowered – she seems to believe that all Muslim women are oppressed by Muslim men and the religion itself. I think this is a common misconception about Americans and other Westerners.

  36. I thought you might be interested in this painting of 100+ women that played major roles in history. Each portrait is linked to their wikipedia page so you can read more if about them. Their name also pops up when you mouse over them with your pointer.

    http://cliptank.com/InspiringWomenPainting.html

    The description says: “This is a tribute to all the women politicians, warriors, pilots, scientists, artists, dancers, actresses, performers, spies, prisoners of war, activists, writers, queens, outlaws, athletes, engineers, astronauts, business tycoons, ground breakers, mathematicians, race car drivers, doctors, surgeons, freedom fighters, and mothers. “

  37. Love the earlier idea about inclusive vs. exclusive humor, and why many jokes are sexist and therefore have no place in a mixed environment. Why “she doesn’t care,” as an excuse/justification for exclusive jokes is usually not true, and insufficient anyway. BUT, my biggest suggestion is about unconscious sexism–the subtle actions (like sexist jokes) that even conscious pro-feminists, male or female, do on a daily basis.

    This from a male seeking stories, or just more information.

    Thanks!

  38. Hi,
    I am currently researching the boundaries of feminism in a heterosexual relationship.
    I need heterosexual feminist women, who are currently in a relationship to answer a qualitative questionnaire.
    If you feel you would like to take part in my dissertation project for my 3rd year at university, then please contact me on: j039284a@student.staffs.ac.uk

    I would be very greatful if you could take part.

    Thanks,
    zoe jayne

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