FAQ: Aren’t feminists all lesbian man-haters?

Short answer: No. Feminists come from a variety of backgrounds, with a variety of values and opinions, and (among other things) are in no way uniform in their sexual preferences. Some feminists identify as lesbian, some as heterosexual, some as bisexual, some as asexual, etc. As for the “man-hating” moniker, it has more to do with a backlash against women speaking out about oppression than it does with true incidents of “man-hating” perpetuated by feminism/feminists (see this FAQ entry on conflating the alleged actions of an individual with the ideology of a group).

Feminists as lesbians

Myth#3: Feminists are bitter because they are ugly, hairy and lesbians.
Why would any good consumer be bitter over saving gobs of money by rejecting the billion dollar beauty industry, aimed at manufacturing stepford wives?

What’s wrong with being a lesbian? Let me guess:you think its unfair competition for heterosexual men with little foreplay skills? I say, competition is a good thing; it allows the best lover at the lowest emotional drain to win the girl.

[Aspazia (Mad Melancholic Feminista): Feminism 101: Myths and Facts.]

As you can see by the above quote, the “all feminists are lesbian” myth is often coupled with the myth of all feminists being hairy legged/flannel wearing/mannish/ugly. Neither of which, it’s noted over and over again, is a bad thing. The problem is that these attributes are 1) being used as shorthand for “bad” in a way that allows the speaker to casually dismiss the group and its members, and 2) being forced on people in the group who do not subscribe to them, thus creating effectively erasing their experiences.

Beyond the individual level, however, it’s also important (especially for heterosexual feminists) to recognize that lesbianism has had played a significant and positive role in shaping modern feminism. Notably, Lesbian feminism(Wikipedia link), for all of its flaws (especially regarding its erasure/rejection of trans* people, identity, and issues), called out mainstream feminism on its homophobia and heteronormativity. As the qlbtq article on Lesbian Feminism states, “Indeed, one of the most significant accomplishments of the lesbian feminist movement was to facilitate a network of social and political support that helped lesbians cope with the isolation, stigma, and legal problems that many homosexuals battled.”

Feminists as man-haters

Unlike the “all feminists are lesbian” myth, the “all feminists are man-haters” myth would be a very bad thing if it were true. Good thing, then, that it’s not (this is discussed in more detail in the Why do you feminists hate men? FAQ entry).

Beyond the fact that the “man-hating” myth is, well, a myth, it’s important to note that it has roots in homophobia:

The idea that feminists hate men seems to be based partly upon media representations of 1960s and 1970s radical feminism, especially the horror of lesbian separatism. Here we have a very marginal, but radical, aspect of feminism highlighted and made representative of the entire movement. This claim also compounds the homophobic link between feminism and lesbianism…

[Winter (Mind the Gap): Springing the Traps: On Countering Anti-Feminism(Article no longer available).

]

Indeed, mainstream feminists in the past hoped to distance themselves from the “man-hater” stereotype by distancing themselves from lesbians/lesbianism:

[Betty] Friedan, and some other straight feminists as well, worried that the association [between lesbianism and NOW/the emerging women's movement] would hamstring feminists’ ability to achieve serious political change, and that stereotypes of ‘mannish’ and ‘man-hating’ lesbians would provide an easy way to dismiss the movement.”

[Wikipedia: Lavender Menace.]

Of course, the “threat” to men inherent in both lesbian and feminist thought is that women need not, and should not, position men as the center of their lives:

The Woman-Identified Woman‘s] authors claimed that lesbians and lesbianism are of central, rather than peripheral, importance to the feminist movement. The woman-identified woman, they contended, undermines patriarchy by withdrawing her energy from men, by affirming a connection with other women, and by validating women on their own terms, independent of men. So long as women seek the approval of men and male institutions, they argued, they cannot become autonomous human beings.

[glbt: Lesbian Feminism.]

Related Reading:

• FAQ: Why do you feminists hate men?
• FAQ: Aren’t feminists just hairy-legged makeup haters?

Introductory:

• Melinda Kanner and Kristin J. Anderson: “The Myth of the Man-Hating Feminist” in Michele A. Paludi [ed.] (Praeger, 2009): Feminism and Women’s Rights Worldwide: pp. 1-26.
• glbt: Lesbian Feminism.

Clarifying Concepts:

• Claiming man-hating as a distraction technique:

  It does not really matter whether or not a few individual feminists “hate” men (I haven’t met one yet but I promise I’ll tell you if I do), for accusations of misandry constitute yet another distraction technique. When encountering this statement, don’t go on the run and start talking about your lovely boyfriend and men friends who you (obviously) don’t hate. There’s no way you can prove that feminists don’t hate men to someone who believes this to be the case and, anyway, the argument is again a strategic one. Ask them what man-hating feminists have they met? Can they direct you to references to man-hating feminist articles and books? You’d be interested to read them. Or, if you want to be really provocative, ask them if they understand why some women have good reason to have issues with some men? I mean, if my husband beat me, I might not hate all men, but I might justifiably be very frightened of them. Ask them what they think could be done to stop women feeling frightened of men and feminists from being angry?

  [Winter (Mind the Gap): Springing the Traps: On Countering Anti-Feminism(Article no longer available).

  ]

• Addressing the homophobia of the myth:
  

  Where women are concerned, the line taken is “I don’t want to be a feminist because feminists are all lesbians.” Calling upon homophobic stigma, this claim also presumes lesbianism to be a bad thing with which one does not want to be associated. When young women calmly express the view that they don’t want to be feminists because feminists are lesbians, I am most concerned that these young people are still so comfortable with their own homophobia. Is the existence of lesbians within feminism enough to render the movement disgusting? Are lesbians really considered such socially abject creatures? As a lesbian feminist, the idea that my identity is a source of revulsion to young men and women is not a little disconcerting. There is no point in giving them examples of heterosexual feminists and to do so is again to implicitly disavow all the lesbian feminists. Instead, I would just tell them I find their homophobia utterly repulsive. If they don’t consider themselves homophobic, this might shake them up a bit and open to the way to an actual discussion. If, however, they are happy homophobes, you might be better off finding someone worth talking to.

  [Winter (Mind the Gap): Springing the Traps: On Countering Anti-Feminism(Article no longer available).

  ]

FAQ: if women like sex just as much as men do, then why is rape so bad? It’s just rougher sex, right?

AKA: Women like it, really! They say they don’t, but they do!

A: I’m not joking, some people still do use this argument. Even if most of them are just trolls looking to stir up outrage, this trope is still out there needing some debunking.

Potential PTSD Trigger Warning

OK, let’s go through this step by step:

• Imagine your favourite dessert. You know, the one you almost always end up ordering at a restaurant even though you’ve had it heaps of times before. That one dessert of which you always want second or even third servings. The one you ask friends and family to make for your birthday.
• Really imagine it. The taste of it. The feel of it on your lips and tongue and sliding down your throat. The lingering aftertaste. How much you’ll enjoy it the next time you have a chance to eat some.
• Imagine the surroundings. Are you alone, savouring it all to yourself? Are you with friends, all enjoying sharing this delectable dessert? Are you in a lovely cafe or restaurant, enjoying the ambience and the service, and the accompanying coffee or liqueur?
• Imagine how many servings you are going to have this time. Will you eat it fast or slow? Will you eat it all, or take some home with you for later?
• NOW imagine someone forcing you to eat your favourite dessert. It’s not a joke. You can’t get away. They are too strong for you, and they are kneeling across your chest and pinning your arms. Maybe they have threatened you with a weapon to get you to this place, or perhaps tricked you with an offer of your favourite dessert and then overpowered you once they got you alone.
• Imagine that they are not just offering you your favourite dessert in any way that you can control how you bite it, chew it and swallow it. This person is shoving your favourite dessert down your throat. With a stick.

Feminism Friday: Popularity of long-debunked rape myths: talk about disheartening

Originally posted at Hoyden About Town

The top link offered to me on Stumble-Upon for Women’s Issues is this: Through a Rapists Eyes, a page on a rape-prevention site. Unfortunately, they are propagating misinformation, pure and simple.

Some of you may recognise the opening paragraphs as one of those emails that gets forwarded around the place. This one has been on the go since 2000, forwarded eagerly on and on by those concerned about how to appear less vulnerable/appealing to stranger rapists. However, it is dangerously misleading (not least in never mentioning that fewer than 1in 5 rapes are actually committed by strangers – by far the majority of rapes of women are committed by men they know who rape opportunistically when they are alone together and later claim that the sex was consensual).

Below are some excerpts from the quoted email (the most egregiously wrong), and a summary from me below each point of the actual facts as laid out by the meticulous Barbara Mikkelson of Snopes’ Urban Legend Reference Pages.

A group of rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim, and here are some interesting facts:

1. The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid, or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.

[fact: this claim is totally unsupported by any studies known to law enforcement - women with all hair lengths, including short hair, and all ages and body types, are raped in seemingly equal proportions]

2. The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women whose clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors to cut clothing.

[fact: rapists are often/usually more interested in terrorising and harming women than they are in obtaining sex quickly, so clothing is not a major factor in victim choice]

More Feminism Friday posts: two from Melissa at Shakesville

I just left this link in comments to the previous post, but it deserves greater visibility.

Feminism 101: Calling Out Fellow Progressives for “Sexism Prevents Unity on the Left”

Melissa comprehensively debunks this pernicious silencing tactic.

Just one little part:

There are too many progressives who view social change like conservatives view economics: Make everything as splendid as possible for those at the top and the benefits will “trickle down” to everyone below.

Well, it’s bullshit when we’re talking about tax cuts, and it’s bullshit when we’re talking about equality and opportunity.

ADDIT: Melissa also wrote another great Feminism 101 post earlier this week (can you tell that I’m only just catching up with my feed-reader?):

Feminism 101: “Feminists Look for Stuff to Get Mad About”

Of all the condescending, dismissive, and factually incorrect accusations used by concern trolls (or hostile trolls) to attempt to silence, shame, or in some other way discourage feminists from addressing sexism in all its manifestations, perhaps none is quite so stupid as the charge that feminists are “looking” for things about which to be offended—as if feminism is a product that will go out of production if there aren’t enough buyers and sales are waning because sexism is, like, so over, dude.

Two from Melissa as well as two from Jill. We’re very spoilt for Feminism Friday style posts this week. Read any other great posts that display the Feminism Friday sensibility recently?