FAQ: Aren’t feminists just sexists towards men?

2007 June 3
AKA Aren’t feminists just “reverse sexists”?

Short answer: Neither feminists as a group, nor feminist theory, engages in sexism or “reverse sexism” against men. Often times the feminist focus on women’s issues, as well as their recognition and continued efforts to correct the imbalance of power (see male privilege), are seen as looking to privilege women over men, but in fact are simply attempts to level the playing field between men as a class and women as a class.

Debunking claims of “reverse sexism”

No matter what definition of sexism” you’re starting with, “reverse sexism” is an invalid claim to make. If you go strictly by the dictionary definition, then a woman being prejudiced against a man is simply “sexism”, no “reverse” needed. If you go by the feminist definition, sexism is predicated on having institutional power over a group, and since women do not have that power, they cannot be sexists, reverse or otherwise.

In terms of claims that feminists are “reverse sexists” because they are trying to get women “special rights”, consider the following:

In the same way, women do not have the power to institutionalize their prejudices against men, so there is no such thing as “reverse sexism.” How do we know this? We simply have to take a look at the representation of women and people of color in our institutions. Take, for example, the U.S. Congress. What percentage of its members are people of color or women? [...] We see the same lack of representation in financial institutions, in the leadership of churches and synagogues, in the military. [...]

If women and people of color were not in business (because of the social and cultural restrictions on them) when the first male business organizations were formed, then they now have to fight for inclusion. The curious thing about lack of prior claim is that it is simply the circumstances of the moment that put the original people there in every case, yet when those who were initially excluded begin asking for or demanding inclusion, they are seen as disruptive people, as trouble-makers, as no doubt anti-American. We still recall the verbal and physical violence against women who participated in the Suffrage Movement and the black men and women who formed the Civil Rights Movement. For simply asking for one’s due, one was vilified and abused. This is an effective technique, making those struggling for their rights the ones in the wrong. Popular movements are invalidated and minimized, their participants cast as enemies of the people, and social change is obstructed by those holding power who cast themselves as defenders of tradition and order.

In addition to the continued lack of equal representation of women in positions of political, economic, and social power, it is also worth noting that inequality has been so normalized by society that when we do achieve equality, it is actually seen as privileging women (see the Isn’t feminism nowadays just going too far? FAQ entry).

Women focusing on women’s issues is not sexist

One of the reasons why feminists are said to be sexist towards men is because we focus on, and privilege, the female point of view. The problem with this assertion is twofold:

  1. It assumes that focusing on women’s issues means not looking at men’s issues at all
  2. It assumes a level playing field, one which doesn’t actually exist yet

No one is saying that discussions on men and masculinities shouldn’t go on. It is absolutely important to have dialogue on men’s issues, including discussions on violence done towards men. But, the thing is, men, not women, need to be the ones creating the spaces to discuss men’s issues.

Consider this:

Women get so few chances in which to share our stories with each other, to find out that we aren’t alone in our experiences, and to have venues in which to publicly tell our stories. The fact that women are beginning to organize and bring these things to their communities is nothing short of amazing.

If women can do this in the face of all the pressure from institutionalized sexism, then what’s stopping men from doing the same? Why is it women’s responsibility to make sure that men feel included by a presentation that, by its very name, is supposed to be about women reaching out to women?

For more related discussion on this topic, please refer to the Related Reading section below.

Related Reading:

Introductory:

Clarifying Concepts:

  • Summarizing why feminists aren’t sexist towards men:

    Well, to cut a long story short:

    1. I believe that feminism benefits men, and patriarchy hurts men too…
    2. …but – and this is the KEY point – even if this weren’t the case, feminism would still be valuable because it improves the lives of women, and this on it’s own has value, because – duh!women’s lives have value. Gees, don’t you get it yet?
    3. Part of being a feminist is accepting that people should not assume they can speak on behalf of other people. For example, a white feminist should not assume she can speak on behalf of black feminists’ experiences, a heterosexual woman shouldn’t assume she can speak on behalf of lesbians, and so on. With this in mind, why should I, as a woman, be expected to think, speak, and act, on behalf of men? Wouldn’t that be rather arrogant of me? Yet this is exactly what these men are demanding female feminists do. Well frankly, if it’s that important to these men, then they should take action themselves instead of wasting their time attacking those of us who are bothering to take action on gender issues.
    4. At the end of the day, there are feminists who concentrate on men’s issues, some who do work on both genders, and some who concentrate solely on improving the world for women. All are useful aspects of feminism. All have validity, and none of them should have to apologise for their focus.
    [Catherine Redfern (The F-Word) Feminists are Sexist .]
  • Ignoring the contribution that feminists do make to men’s issues:

    The most infuriating thing about this is that – as regular readers will know – I do think that feminism is important for men as well as women and I encourage both men and women to critique mainstream masculinity as well as femininity. But that doesn’t mean that I think that every single instance of feminist activism has to be prefaced with a disclaimer about how this also benefits men. Frankly, I’m getting a little bored of it. I believe it strongly, but there’s only so many times I am forced to repeat it before it gets a little wearing and I start to wonder why I have to keep doing it in the first place.

    [Catherine Redfern (The F-Word) Feminists are Sexist .]
  • The use of the claim as a silencing tactic:

    I wanted to talk about it here to highlight the unrelenting anti-feminist sentiment behind these accusations of sexism against feminism. Have no doubt about it – this kind of accusation is simply an attempt to stop feminist action and thought in its tracks, hidden behind a superficial pretence of “fairness”. The emails I received are also represent a more extreme version of why some people fear identifying as feminists.

    [Catherine Redfern (The F-Word) Feminists are Sexist .]
  • More on the “feminists are sexists” claim being hypocritical:

    The thing is, I’m getting really, really tired of having to justify feminism by explaining how it also benefits men. And that, believe it or not, is the point of this article. What I’m angry about is not the genuine male enquirers who honestly wonder why ‘nobody complains about the stereotyping of men’ (and they do exist, I replied to several of them), it’s the anti-feminist men who attack us for daring to get involved in a movement which aims to improve the lives of women.

    What this is really about is men accusing feminists of sexism and hypocrisy unless they can prove that they spend exactly half of their time, energy, and resources on campaigning on behalf of men. What this is really about is that if feminism only improves the lives of women, it has no value or importance. What this is really about is that feminism only has value if it works on behalf of men and improves the lives of men. What this is really about is anti-feminist men being threatened by women working for women. What they’re really saying is that to talk about women, to focus on women, to point out that something affects women badly; all of this is of no importance or value. It’s classic, really – because men are not always the focus of attention of feminism, these anti-feminists can’t stand it.

    What this is about is that some men can’t stand not being the centre of attention.

    [Catherine Redfern (The F-Word) Feminists are Sexist .]
  • Oppression versus discrimination:

    Something else that is important to understand is that oppression is not discrimination. Oppression is about systems and relations of power, and exists in social structures and institutions. Oppression is wide-spread subjugation of one group while simultaneously privileging another group. This means that those groups who are subjected to oppression are not in a social position to oppress people belonging to the dominant group. There is no such thing as “reverse” sexism, racism, homophobia, (dis)ableism, classism, etc.

    [Thinking Girl (Thinking Girl) Feminism.]
80 Responses leave one →
  1. 2009 July 25
    Kandela permalink

    Because there were only 8 students and they were all in my extended circle of friends. So, from talking to and knowing those involved. Admittedly I didn’t ask all of them directly, but this was a topic for discussion on a number of occasions within this social group and I feel pretty confident that I have this right.

    As I said before, this type of situation is exceedingly rare. And I have no problem with the methodology in general, I just think it needs to be constantly reassessed on a case by case basis.

    I wouldn’t have even brought it up, except to illustrate what I took the term ‘reverse sexism’ to mean. That is: procedures put in place to accelerate the dismantling of sexism, persisting past the accomplishment of their goals.

  2. 2009 July 25

    Only 8 students? From your initial description I had the impression of a much larger student cohort.

    I wouldn’t have even brought it up, except to illustrate what I took the term ‘reverse sexism’ to mean. That is: procedures put in place to accelerate the dismantling of sexism, persisting past the accomplishment of their goals.

    But were the goals of the scholarship program merely to have equal numbers of male and female students on the course? Or are the goals to have equal numbers of male and female professors on the faculty? What was that ratio like?

    And are the scholarships for female students discretionary from the institution’s chancellor/bursar, or are they perhaps legacy scholarships with provisions that are immutable?

  3. 2009 July 27
    Kandela permalink

    “Or are the goals to have equal numbers of male and female professors on the faculty? What was that ratio like?”

    Well, those ratios are rubbish. As in they are so far skewed to men it’s ridiculous. I remember when I first started doing postgraduate research there even the department secretary was male. The only female staff member was the most senior professor’s personal secretary. Slightly better now, the department has been somewhat pro-active in trying to address the issue.

    With respect though I don’t think it is appropriate to attempt to equalise the ratio in staff by pushing the ratio of students in the field past equal. The numbers of staff are a direct reflection of the policies of the past. What we would like is for their to be equality through the ranks. Which means first producing equality in the junior staff and as they progress and old staff retire, the goal is accomplished*. If we were to artificially create a gender balance that was skewed the other way then we either create an inequality on a ‘local’ level or shift the inequality somewhere else or induce a future inequality (in the reverse direction).

    I think the goal must be to equalise everywhere at every level (within some random error), overcompensating at some level just shifts the discrimination around.

    tigtog, seeing as how you are from NSW, you may remember an instance from about 5-10 years ago. A teaching college wanted to offer scholarships to men because there male enrolment in teaching courses was just 10%. However, at the time (I’m not sure if this has been changed now) the legislation was worded so that equity scholarships could not be offered to men. The solution offered was to offer equal numbers of scholarships to men and women. At the time I thought this was ridiculous bureaucracy, but now I’m in favour of this type of scheme. I think it avoids the problems I mentioned earlier and achieves the goal of letting both men and women know that their input in those fields is equally desired.

    “And are the scholarships for female students discretionary from the institution’s chancellor/bursar, or are they perhaps legacy scholarships with provisions that are immutable?”

    I’m not sure of the exact conditions, but the institution is quite young, so there are few legacy scholarships.

    *This naive model assumes no hiring from outside, which of course is wrong in the extreme, but to include further detail obfuscates the point

  4. 2009 July 27
    Quinn permalink

    “” Having been on the receiving end of sexism from women, ( I am male), I find this statement offensive.

    Are you referring to some expressed prejudice or an act of discrimination?

    Why are you so sure that the prejudice or discrimination was based on gender?

    Given the way you behave on forums, if you were passed over for some opportunity, it could very easily be more to do with you being a rather annoying person.”"

    Actually tig tog, realise that you may find me annoying, especially as I disagree with some assertions in your philosophy, pointing me to the dictionary for a definition of “patriarchy” while simultaneously expecting people to except your own definition of “sexism” being one.

    While it is true that many people find those who have faith in there own observations until proven otherwise irritating, I do not believe this has had much to do with my experiences of female sexism.

    Even if it were true , it would still be ludicrous to state that women can’t be sexist.

    I am not however, implying or claiming that women do not experience institutionalised sexism more so than men.

    And I certainly don’t think this is a good thing.

  5. 2009 July 28
    Quinn permalink

    well you asked, tho I think its pretty irrelevant considering the deeper debate on this page. I was working with an all women crew, with about 2 guys, a female art department manager and 2 IC, creating the marble effects for a reproduction of the first floor of the empire estate building for king kong.
    I received no end of crap, was asked to do impossible tasks, and was reprimanded for fixing an unworkable spray booth in my own lunch break, after working with these guys, I ended up on an on set crew, the new york set. Here I worked with a mixed group (gender wise) and was commended on my speed and skill.
    Despite this, having been promised to be on the final crew, I was passed over in favour for work in favour of a girl with less experience, because she was pretty I guess, and the boss was male. “Eye candy for the boys.” I was told.
    So you could say I was the victim of sexism from both genders. As a result I have decided to retrain. I’m over the film industry.
    I’m pretty over this site too as you guys just seem to shut down anyone who disagrees with you and refuse to answer valid questions.
    I admit that my forum etiquette is possibly not the best. But I still feel no one has been able to give me a reasonable answer to any of my questions.
    Don’t worry, i wont bother asking again.

  6. 2009 July 28
    Quinn permalink

    I totally agree with you vision here. This is how I think things should work too. I know people who have a strong extended family model, Grandparents are believed in many traditions to be far better at raising children. I remember an african tribe I read about where children and the elderly were considered the wisest……

    I’m training to work from home, so I’m hoping to be able to do a lot of the child care in this way… though it may be trickier than I imagine. I also couldn’t face the stress and responsibility, or the sacrifice of my own creativity, entailed in being the sole or primary bread winner. I also want a partner who is self sufficient. I don’t want a dependant partner or control. Being with someone who expects this also entails having to take responsibility for every decision even those you had no way of knowing the outcome of.

    I completely agree with this concept. you need to understand that I am not anti feminist. I just can’t agree with certain concepts. Maybe I should just let them go and take what I can agree with. I guess focusing on what I percieve as weak points with in the philosophy could be considered cherry picking…..

  7. 2009 August 1
    Hugh permalink

    Oh, something I wanted to ask about the original post: It says that women can’t be sexist in the feminist definition because women don’t have institutional power over men. That seems sensible when society is taken as a whole, but isn’t it possible that there will be smaller arenas in which women as a class do hold most of the power, and that there sexism towards men is a very real possibility? (I’m thinking particularly about men teaching in primary schools, which was in the news here recently).
    Possibly I’m misunderstanding the concept of institutional power?

  8. 2009 August 1
    Sweet Honesty permalink

    isn’t it possible that there will be smaller arenas in which women as a class do hold most of the power, and that there sexism towards men is a very real possibility?

    And “smaller arenas” is the key phrase. You can leave those small arenas, and step back into the world at large (which caters to your every want & need) but, for women, those small arenas are pretty much the only place in which we have any type of power or acknowledgment.

    PS What part of “This is a Feminist information blog, and NOT a haven for MRAs”, are you unclear on? This is not the place to discuss any real (or imagined) male plights.

  9. 2009 August 4
    Hugh permalink

    Hi Sweet Honesty. And hmm, that’s true, and I can see that would make a pretty big difference. But still, my question is, if there are these ’smaller arenas’, is it possible for women to be sexist (in the feminist sense the article mentions) in those arenas?

    PS – You’ll notice I’m not asking anyone to discuss any male plights, I’m asking a question about the feminist theory involved in the original post, specifically about the uniformity of this ‘institutional power’. Could you please lay off the personal insults?

  10. 2009 August 19
    Jane Morgan permalink

    I have a colleague who claims to be a feminist. She attends feminist lectures and those on womens issues. However all she ever bangs on about is how “All men are shit” how she “F***ing hates men” , how “women should run the world” and how men have no place commenting on womens issues”. She actually really believes this its not just for show. This to me is blatant plain and simple unadultorated sexism. She comes out with these remarks on a daily basis in front of male colleauges who Ironically are some of the nicest guys you could wish to meet let alone work with. Are women like this not damaging feminism? They are not feminist. They are sexists masquerading as feminists and from the reactions of male colleauges, they are further alienating men and diminishing the chances of men engaging with real feminist issues.

  11. 2009 August 24

    Women who are feminists can be prejudiced against men. That doesn’t mean that it’s feminism which has made the woman so prejudiced, merely that she has found a way to rationalise her prejudices using the language of feminism.

    Bigots do this all the time – masquerade as social activists against one thing in order to mask their bigotry against something/someone else. It’s not the fault of whichever system of social activism they latch onto.

    Otherwise we’d have to start blaming all conservatives for the people who shoot up churches in order to kill a doctor who performs abortions, wouldn’t we?

  12. 2009 September 3
    Kris permalink

    40% of all domestic violence is done by women. You think that there is no sexism towards men and women are ot equal. Your partly right there, women are treated as superiors in our society. There are special laws requring businesses to have some female workers no matter what the job is. And there is a law that at least 40% of stakeholders in a business have to be women. How is that not sexist? These laws are in place and furthering women but not firhtering men. if you complain that there arent enough women in parliament then maybe some women should stop sitting on the arses waitng for a law to be passed that puts them in parliament and do some hard work and EARN IT!!! The prime minister of newzealnd for 2000-2006 was a women.

  13. 2009 September 4
    Realistic permalink

    You say that women dont have the same working rights. And thats true they have better ones. Laws have been passed, aiming at stopping sexism to have 40% of all workers in a business women. Which means some better qualified men mnight be missing out because of a sexist law. And 40% of stakeholders in a large business must be women also.

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